A Familial Interview

 Hey guys! just a quick blurb before you continue reading: my original interview was almost an hour long, and that translated to about 15 pages of unedited words; I went back in, cut out sentence fillers, and got it down to 10 pages, but I know *nobody* wants to read that--so instead, I've only included smaller chunks of the entire thing! 

The person I interviewed is Dr. Bani--she is the most wonderful person, and a music educator, so she had some interesting things to say! I *did* get special permission because of my precarious family state, but please don't repeat what I did! this was only under very rare circumstances that I was allowed to do this. 
This will also be color coded; any questions I ask will be in blue, and important responses will be in white; details that I think are funny or interesting will be in pink! Remember--only the white things are important; she talks a LOT!! 

Rachel Bani's Journey With Music

S: I'm here with Dr. Bani; I'm going to be interviewing about music and how it has affected you, your personality, your life, how it's evolved over your lifetime so far. So! I'm going to start with how music has affected your childhood--what were you raised with? What did your parents make you listen to? Did your parents not let you listen to certain types of music? Things like that.
B: Okay, that's a great question. So, thinking the whole way back to my childhood, my parents had two very different musical tastes. We never had records or CDs in the home or anything like that, but in the car, my mom always put on country radio. So I grew up with…Patsy Cline and Shania Twain, Martina McBride, The Chicks. Those were all in the 90s, what I grew up with as a kid. My dad, on the other hand, was much more into “grunge rock,” but, again, we only ever listened to stuff in the car, but he was really into…Nirvana would be one, and Black Sabbath. My dad was really into Black Sabbath and that broad genre of music, so I had a really varied upbringing in that way. I never was really introduced to classical music per se, but my mom did bend toward folk music.
I'm trying to think of other things; growing up, I sang in church choir, so lots of hymns as well—those were a big part of my “early childhood.”
S: Can you remind me what your official schooling was? You’re a musicologist, correct?
B: Yeah, absolutely. So, my bachelor's degrees are in--my first one is in trombone performance, my other is a bachelor’s in music education.
So I went that route initially thinking that I was going to be a band director, realized when I got into undergrad that…maybe being a band director wasn't what I wanted to do. I'd always been really interested in historical research and writing and history and all of those things, so when I took my first ever music history course and fell in love with it, that was how I decided what I wanted to do. I didn't know that musicology existed as a viable career option until I was already in my sophomore year of undergrad. Then from undergrad, I was accepted to Florida State University in their historical musicology program, which was fantastic.
S: You've listened to a lot of music as part of your education. How has your education influenced the way you listen to music, what you listen to in general, and the kinds of things that you prefer listening to? How has that changed from when you were a teenager and listening to things in high school, versus what you were listening to in college?  How has that changed over the years, and how has your education affects you as a person and your music tastes?
B: Yeah, absolutely; I love that question!
I will say one of the major changes that ”rewired my brain a bit” was this idea of…I think that as Western trained musicians, we have this tendency to place particular value on different kinds of music, different kinds of performance levels, etc. One thing that my musicology training helped shape me in the direction of is…I don't like thinking about music in terms of value judgment anymore. Like, "what is the worth of a Shostakovich symphony versus an Ariana Grande pop song"? They're incomparable. They're both valuable. They're both important. They both have their audience! And that was one thing that I realized early on that my training had been such an eyeopener--I noticed myself and my friends were like, “this is capital G good music versus capital B bad music,” and that has been kind of completely wiped from my perspective--I just love listening. And I love critiquing whatever it is; when it's a student performance, there's moments of “oh, this is such a beautiful moment.” Even if it's a “student performance.” It’s also there in a professional recording; “there's such a beautiful moment here;” that kind of lens has really shaped my perspective, because I tend to think about music in terms of “music is valuable,” because it is. And I think that there's so much to just be said; it's a human expression of joy and emotion, and I think that we have this tendency as well to say “this person is a performer, and they're really good,” but that means that there's people who love music who always think or say “I never feel comfortable performing,” and I think that's so sad, because there's so many people who love music! And they're like, “Oh, no, no, but I couldn't possibly sing in the choir or XYZ, because I don't have a particular kind of training.” I think that's such a harmful idea. I think that music is for everyone, and that everyone should be involved, because it is so deeply personal, and it is so deeply human. 
I would take my CD player out for jogs around the neighborhood, and it would be skipping every step I’d take, I'd be trying to cradle my CD player while jogging around the neighborhood, listening to “Boulevard of Broken Dreams,” so I have I have a really good memory of that.
But I got more mellow as I aged, I guess, musically speaking; by the end of high school, I was a huge Florence and the Machine buff. I went to go see a Florence and the Machine concert when I graduated high school. I remember that was my “first big kid” thing--our parents let us go by ourselves; it was our first unchaperoned concert experience. Florence Welsh is just…a goddess incarnate. So that was incredible. Hosier is the other one that I just…I rate my weeks in terms of how many times I have to listen to a Hosier album to like make it through. So like…if I have a week where I have to listen to the album Unreal Unearthed seven times a week, then I know I've been emotionally going through it. But if I have a “two Hosier albums in a week,” then it's “okay, we're feeling pretty good,” but sometimes you have just got to listen to something ceaselessly in order to get your brain to release some sort of happy chemical.
S: Can you speak on any of the Scottish music that you've studied? And speaking of that, how that has shaped either your appreciation of music, you as a person, or maybe how that music is spoken to you as a person? Because as an American who was raised here, you were listening to a different culture's music and having to really study that culture; has that influenced you at all after you've studied it?
B: Scottish song (in particular) has…there's some really varied song traditions in Scotland. And I kind of fell in love with Gaelic language, singing, and the storytelling aspect of it--that's something I've always found really attractive in art, is when you can hear a story unfolding. So this connection to history that you hear in songs of all different kinds of traditions: these histories, particular people who were important in particular places, and all of this folklore…it's just always so interesting what you can hear encoded in a song--  community value, personal value, as well as a deep abiding love for the music itself. That's what I've always found really attractive about the Scottish Gaelic language song. In particular is this connection to history and place and story--so much story!
S: Have you seen—or do you think--music has evolved in a more negative way? Or do you think that music has degraded at all from the more elderly music?
B: Interesting…Degraded? Never. I think that every generation comes to music with a different perspective, and I think that there's really, really cool things happening in the arts now. Every generation has its thing that it brings; kids in the 50s were being yelled at by their parents who said “that dang Elvis,” and then the next generation--the kids who were in love with Elvis—they said “Led Zeppelin, God damn it!” So I think that always happens. I think it's a natural progression--no matter what genre you're talking about, no matter when in history, there's always this push and pull, and it’s one thing that I think is really interesting about music today. We've had this trajectory in the last--in my life--the last 30 years, this trajectory of the stuff that we hear on the top 40, these are the things that like the industry is approving--is saying “we want this on the radio. This is what the kids want to hear.” But we've got these things [holds up her phone]; we have our tiny little personal computers, where we can get on here, write a song, upload it to sound cloud or TikTok or wherever, and have a million views in a day and a half--depending on particular factors of course--but I think it's so cool that technology has opened this other window so people can engage with music that they like; you don't just have to listen to what's on the radio. I think that there's a lot of independence in the development of musical taste today, which is really cool to see for all of the things that technology can be good or bad about. I think that's one thing that's really awesome.
S: During this interview, we've gotten a taste of your personal preferences. Are there any things that irk you about music? Any genres, any topics, any “things that artists do” that you're just like …”God, why do you do that in your music”? For example, to stimulate your thoughts, Logan Paul and his “It's Everyday Bro”.
B: So something that I don't like about music…
 S: Modern music, past music; for example, some people don't like how a lot of writers are writing about their sex lives now, and people are constantly mentioning their very messy lives instead of writing about something else like nature or heartbreak. Some people really don't like how, in the past, people were writing more about “random topics” instead of personal things. 
 B: Okay. That makes sense. I can't think of something that I dislike about music more than my inability to turn my brain off about it. This happens with a lot of performers and musicians--we get so trained to critique, that I can't turn off our brains about it and just fucking enjoy a goddamn piece of music. That for me is a real personal struggle and getting my brain to shut up so I can enjoy a piece of music. I think that there's something to be said for just being able to sit down and enjoy something. Sometimes as a musician, it's really hard to just turn your brain off and relax and enjoy a piece of music. And so for me, that is a practice that I'm trying to implement more often, just to be able to say “this is a bop and I have nothing else to say about it.”
S: Are there any genres that you that you don't prefer or appreciate?
B: I have a really good friend who was super into 90s bubblegum pop--90s and early 2000s bubblegum pop. Not my cup of tea.
S: Are there any genres that you either loved or hated as a kid that you flip-flopped with as an adult? I'm sure you were “forced to enjoy things because you had to listen to it” as a kid. As an adult, do you find yourself saying “I don't like listening to this”? Or, for example, you hated classical as a kid and now you absolutely enjoy it?
B: Yeah, there's country music today that I adore and there is country music today that I abhor when I think about country music. The genre that I grew up with--Willie Nelson and outlaw country—are very different compared to the stadium-canned country music of today that is…um…I'm trying to think of a way to put it nicely.
S: you don't have to put it nicely.
B: Bootlicker-y. And that makes me angry beyond all possible belief because the roots--where that genre comes from--there's a lot of forgetting where country music started in, and where a lot of where a lot of country music is, is now today. And that's not a hit on all modern country artists because there's some that I super adore.
S: How do you feel about genres blending, especially as someone who's educated in music? So--while on the topic of country—how do you feel about the syncretism of country and rap that's happening today, etc.? Do you like it, or do you absolutely hate the blending? Was there a different feeling as a child versus you're an adult now that you've been educated about music?
B: Yeah, I love it. Fusion is amazing. I think it’s an important part of the development of art in general--fusing different styles and techniques. Considering the blending of country and hip hop, I immediately went to a Lil Nas X. I adore Lil Nas X; I think the blending in general is fun and fresh. There's also so much interesting social and political critique in fusing genres that way; I think that it's so important in the realm of art as a political statement, so I think that fusion is always interesting because it's always going to make you question your conception of “this is what I thought this box was.” But when those walls of the “box” crumbles, what other really cool, fascinating kind of artistic worlds of thought can you move into? That’s why I love fusion—its critical. 
S: Alright! This is a hard, open question. How has music shaped your life in general? 
B: Music is at the core of who I am as a person, is the long and the short of it. Growing up…you can imagine that I was a little weirdo as a kid. Socially I struggled in a lot of ways; it wasn't until I was in the arts where I really found people that I thought “oh my gosh, here's a bunch of other little weirdos and we can all sit here and play trombone together,” and that was so important to me as a kid. When I got to college it was at that point at the end of high school where I said “I couldn't imagine going to school for anything else” because of how central music had become to my life, I can't go do anything else because it had completely infiltrated its way into my brain. And I'm so glad it did! I will never say that choosing to go into an arts education profession was easy--none of it was easy--but it was the only thing that I could imagine doing with my life, and it was the thing that I felt I could bring the most good to the earth through doing.
That's a huge question. But it is so, so important. All of my friends are musicians and artists, it's changed who I am on a political and social level. Music is deeply interwoven into my soul and personality; there's no words for that feeling of the vacuum--the tiny little black hole--at the center of my being, and how it is music. And then everything else is just…revolving that, sucked into it, being made one with music somehow. 
S: You're doing wonderfully! Continuing on; Is there anything else that you'd like to speak about, about music, about how it's influenced you as a person, how it's influenced your family? How have you have taken music and let it affect other people? How are you using music as a way to spread your love and joy?
B: I think that my involvement in the arts--and choosing to have a career in the arts--was a struggle for my family at first because they said, “you're not going to make any money.” They were worried that I would struggle to find a job, that I would struggle to find something that would pay me well--which is a valid concern for parents who are coming from a much more athletic side. My mom has an MBA and does business, while my dad has worked for Penske for 30 years--so they're very practical people--and I think me choosing to do something that wasn't evidently practical was a big struggle for them at first, which was why my mom made me get a degree in education because she said “if trombone performance doesn't work out, you need an education degree.”
 I'm really glad she did that because now I'm an educator and I love it. In that sense--at first--I think it pushed my family in a lot of ways to consider the kind of social boxes that tend to be placed on “music major kids," and this idea of “you need to go to school in something like math or science in order to get a good job so that you can earn money so that you can then do this” etc.—while it’s inherently practical--I went a weird direction with it; one thing I always appreciate about it is that my parents have always kept me very balanced my dreams versus actually achieving the dreams.
And I think my tendency to have a big idea has influenced them as well, if that makes sense. And I've never voiced this before, so this might sound silly, but I think that we balance each other in a really cool way; it’s helpful for both me and my family.
Yeah, I forgot what the question was. But that's where my brain took me.
S: How do you use music in your life? Do you consider it as something just for aesthetics for extremely specific things? Do you use it to get things done? Do you listen to it just for fun? Do you analyze it? How do you use music? In what capacity?
B: I have so many different uses for music; one thing that I find really interesting about myself: anytime I'm doing work, I can't listen to anything that is going to distract me from the things that I'm doing. So even listening to something like Bach or pop music…I can't do that when I'm trying to write. So I love to listen to the ambient sounds playlists that it's just like…we're just on one chord forever, and there's sometimes a nice little harp, maybe some bird songs. I find that that is one of my favorite kinds of listening experiences. I do that when I'm working and also when I'm trying to fall asleep.
If I can't get my brain to shut up, if I can put on something that's really mellow, so it lulls me into a sense of ease. So that's one of the ways I use music in my life. Another thing that's really important--I live alone at the moment--but I'm used to having roommates. I was always used to there being someone to chat with, so in order to keep myself from going insane, I just put on music--like pop music, usually, or things like a podcast--stuff that makes me feel like I'm having a conversation. That's another way that I use music.
 It's also such a mood indicator; we talked about that with “how many Hozier albums a week equals Rachel's having a minor depressive episode”-- 7 is the answer.
So for me, it's like a mirror. If I'm drawn to listen to a particular thing, I can say, “Oh, I'm feeling a particular way. And we need to do something about it;” it’s like the engine light is blinking, so we should probably go touch some grass. It’s an external reflector--something that I can look at and think “this is where I am mentally.”
S: You have a very unique insight on music, how it's influenced you, how it's influenced you socially, emotionally, politically, etc.,…was there any point in time where your music taste influenced the specific groups within the music community? Did you find your smaller clique within the musical community by having a certain type of listening method or genre that you listen to?
B: It's kind of funny that you bring up the trends of “the kids who are in orchestra listen to one thing, the kids who are band listen to another;” I spent so much of my time hanging out with the jazz program kids because I was part of the jazz band life.
 The music that actually deeply influenced me was ska, because a bunch of those performers were actually in an external band together called Mayweather, and they were a ska kind of pop-punk band, so it was like…all the cool kids who were in the jazz program were in this ska band. The social world in the jazz department slowly evolved into all of us getting into ska because they were all in the ska band. And…I'm looking back at it now, and it's hilarious.
That's some deep lore. But yeah, I listened to a lot of ska in my day, simply because I was in an ensemble with all of these guys who were in a ska band together. And that's just one of those like delightful memories where I'm like, “ah, yes, that's why my eardrums are ringing today.” So thinking about that in that direction, that influenced my musical taste for like a long time in undergrad.
S: Are there any other pockets in your life where you just got “stuck” in a certain genre?
B: Beyond the ska pocket, there was also the Snarky Puppy pocket, where--the guys who were in the ska band were all in the brass section—but the guys in jazz band who were in the rhythm section were all super into Snarky Puppy. So I remember going over to basement hangouts at my friend's house, where it was a bunch of us just…imagine just like the most quintessential jazz band rhythm section you can possibly imagine…all of us just jamming in the basement to Snarky Puppy with these “listening parties.”
That would be another delightful pocket of “I got really into a band because my friends were like really into that band,” and then in grad school, there were some of the older women in the program--who were only “a couple years ahead of me” older—they were super into the music of Sarah Jules and I'm With Her. It's a much more folky sound--like folk country. Sarah Jules is wonderful, but also another one of those artists where I was like, “Oh, I've never heard of this person before,” so in order to seem cooler, I said I was super into her as an artist and then…I started listening to it, and oh my god. I love Sarah Jules now, I’ve been to Atlanta to see her perform, etc. But it’s funny how it happened, you know? Having a musician in common that you really love is such a good way of connecting with people. So when I want to connect with a person, I often find myself asking “Who are their artists?” so then it’s an easy conversation to have with someone--when you can both yell about an artist that you both love a lot. So that's…I guess that happens every once in a while; sometimes the music comes first, and sometimes the people come first, and the music follows.
I like that question…I've never considered that before. That's really fun.
 
S: Can you think back to any time earlier from your undergrad—maybe even middle school--that you connected with someone, and they said, “yeah, I'm really into __,” which led to new friends?
B: Yeah, absolutely. It's so fun how that happens too! It's like we're all these black holes of “yes, give us music. Please give it to me.” The earliest thing that I can think about in that way would be in middle school, where they did a musical every year, and I remember multiple instances of “oh, you need to check out this musical,” and “you haven't listened to this yet, check it out,” and blah, blah, blah. So of course I checked it out, so there was a weird little Broadway segue in middle school because of all the music theater kids.
That was when the musical Wicked came out for the first time. That w as wild. It was Wicked…Oh! And the movie Rent came out right around or just before my 13th birthday. It was a PG-13 movie, so being able to say, “oh yes, I've seen Rent,” and follow along with everyone…actually I know I have that CD somewhere--But yeah, the kind of weird pockets--right around the “coming of age at 13” type—were wild in terms of who I am today and how I developed. So “musical theater” would be a weird pocket of “middle school Rachel's musical listenings.”
S: Thank you. Are there any final comments that you'd like to add before we officially end this interview?
B: Oh gosh, I'm super glad that Dr. Veneman allowed us to have this conversation; this was so much fun. And thank you for thinking of me for the interview! I really, really enjoyed this and this was a lot of fun. So…thanks! I hope it made sense because my brain feels like it got run over by a Mack truck at this particular moment.
S: Thank you for letting me interview you! 

Snarky Puppy--"What About Me?"

Florence and the Machine--"What the Water Gave Me"

Patsy Cline--"Walkin' After Midnight"